|
Post by Bishop on Aug 6, 2009 14:54:50 GMT -5
The Problem It's been going around that a couple of you (Red Team) feel that the Team Death matches are not fair due armament. I refuse to believe that. After observing the way Red Team plays I don't think it is at all armament, but in fact Tactics. No offense to Red Team, but I really think you guys need to work on your tactics via Team Practice (the whole team).
The Solution I would like to schedule a Team Practice in which you all actually show up. Core members, and Extras (if they want). We will go over simple tactics, group formations, and other useful things on the battlefield.
I will post a team practice with a randomly selected date and then expect the rest of you to tell me if you available or not on said date.
|
|
|
Post by Lightning on Aug 7, 2009 14:05:52 GMT -5
Oh no man it's totally unbalanced...not that I'm not fine with the way things are going but yeah it is definitely unbalanced. Also from what I was told by Mustang, we definitely do more team tactics than you guys do. If you haven't noticed we usually split up into two squads and have successfully flanked you guys. The problem was Thunder didn't have a working hop-up and my bb's were too light and flying straight up so we couldn't hit you. Personally with how Reaper's new gun is right now its not as unbalanced as it used to be with the two vector arms smoking everyone. Also with Sam not having a lot of experience with airsoft not being able to bring out the full potential of her KWA yet brings more to the table.
I will admit that our squad tactics aren't perfect but when you have guns that can put a lot of accurate bb's in one area there's not a lot you can do to compete against it. Also when you take into account that while Spineshank's P90 is a great gun with the 9.6v battery he still only has one mid so he would be stupid to go full auto which is a huge disadvantage. After that with the rest of the squad working with borrowed guns such as my AK (which face it, doesn't really compete with most of our guns) and gas pistols (which doesn't compete with primary weapons) it doesn't matter how good our squad tactics are. The only thing we can hope to do is to sneak up within like 20 feet of you without you knowing and hope our gun will shoot accurately enough to hit you with the first shot.
That being said I will repeat what I said in my first paragraph, we are outgunned but we are fine with it. We know we will probably lose every time we go against you guys but we try our hardest every single time to maybe pull off a win. Once we get the SAW in our squad it should be about even, so after that if anyone says we are outgunned they are wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Bishop on Aug 7, 2009 18:02:41 GMT -5
Me and Reaper both agree you guys have never successfully flanked us. Not once can I recall ever being flanked by you guys to the point where we are fighting a two front battle. The only time I can vaguely recall was when you and Thunder snuck up behind us, making loud foot steps and no attempt to be quite. Not to mention Reaper watched you guys walk right up on us. I can only hope you guys look into some better guns. And for Spineshank well maybe he should save up some cash and get some more mids. I know he doesn't have a job or any souce of money for that matter but the money he does get should go to airsoft.
Trust me I can rant more if you want me too. Not that I want to. I just feel that just because you guys claim to use tactics doesn't mean they work or they are executed properly. I apologize for any offense that may have occured. Just want to express my opinion as Captain of this team.
I bid you adieu.
|
|
Reaper
New Member
Private First Class
Blue Team
Posts: 75
|
Post by Reaper on Aug 7, 2009 18:19:45 GMT -5
In my opinion you guys do use team tactics but when flanking an enemy you shouldn't stand straight up, talk, and crunch every leaf that kind of takes the stealth out of the situation. Like the last battle I used my Vector in I saw you and thunder coming a mile away so I simply just sat and waited. And our team does use tactics we always know where a teammate is at or atleast most of the time. We just don't always crowd together. We do this for a reason too its so that if a member gets taken down the team is spread out far enough that the attack wouldn't wipe out the whole team at once or pin us all down.
And our guns have only a little part in the in the play out of the game and that is sending a bb down range to hit something. All of our are to being equally balanced JG M4 S-System 380fps vs. KWA KM4S-System 400fps close enough to the same just different internals. Also my gun only goes 335fps and Bishops is 355fps not the fastest. So therefore its not really the guns its the tactics and how we move.
P.S. none of this was meant to be offensive.
|
|
|
Post by Mustang on Aug 7, 2009 20:24:06 GMT -5
Alright people, its not that bad. Obviously like Lightning said, they are definetly outgunned, but they do continue to fight, so we gotta give them credit for that. In my opinion, yes they do make do very well with what they have, even tactics wise. No they may not execute things the greatest, but they do try, just everyone might not always listen. But as far as not being very stealthy, what does it matter? They are supposed to be the supporting fire squad, and we are the stealth squad, so if they are loud who cares? They usually do a good job of keeping us supressed for a while upon contact, and so they do their job just fine. Of course, with better weapons at our disposal, we eventually escape, and flank. It also helps that we all have full cammo at all times, and that Reaper and I have grown up hunting, and have a decent ammount of practice at moving stealthily, not to mention that I tend to just run as fast as possible and somehow don't get hit. Once they get the saw, it should help out, though now that my hop-up is down that will help them as well. Not only all of that, but we also need a change of scenery. As in my place or Nightwolf's sometime. I can try to swing my place one of these weekends, but you never really know with my dad being home every day. He tends to come up with things at the last minute. Anyways, lets just all try to work on our team tactics better. Red team, you do need to work on flanking a little bit, as well as stealth. Even if that isn't you official role, if we get split up at an event, we all need to be able to perform each others roles. Blue team.... We need better coordination, as of right now Im just going to be blunt. Sam and Bishop obviously want to be working together. And Reaper, you do usually want to be with Bishop too, and when you aren't you seem to like to go off on your own. With just 4 of us, we need to all get used to working with each other regularly, as in keep switching up the pairs. We also need better coordination.... As in not losing our AMMO CARRIER in the middle of the fight *cough cough* Bishop *Cough Cough* Anyways, all I'm sayin is that team practice is definetly required, and we can't just keep doing TD's we need objectives, such as ambushing, capturing an objective, E&E (Escape and Evade), breaking ambushes, leap frog techniques, covering fire, advancing under fire, tactical retreats, etc etc. Alright, so no one take any of my words personally, I'm tired, and prolly a bit of a grump right now.
|
|
|
Post by Bishop on Aug 8, 2009 7:26:39 GMT -5
It's fine Mustang you pretty much stated what everyone was thinking. I do disagree with you on one thing. I don't think Sam and I will be working together as much as you think. Her first one she was with Reaper a majority of the time and her second again with Reaper. Her and I didn't work together till the end of the match, where we won the game by rushing their defense from the right flank. Personally I think we all just need to get 2-ways. I have a couple. I don't know whats wrong with them I think its their rechargeable batteries that are just old an useless. So feel free to bring four triple A batteries to the next event for a 2-way.
Another solution to our less than suitable coordination is a map. I have a pretty good picture of my woods from google maps that was taken during the fall. Which means no leaves on the trees making it easier to see the woods floor. You can actually pick out the white shed, cabin, and old trailer house.
Mustang not to contradict you here or anything, but I feel that blue team can perform much much better. I don't think it's lack of practice. I think it's just the way we run things. So here is what I propose. At our next whatever: TD, or scenario. Ranking members have authority. That means on Blue Team everyone will listen to me with one exception. If Mustang is out on the field with another member that is not me, and has no current orders, then he may give a reasonable command to the other member. Red Team will follow Lightning's orders religiously. End of story. Lightning if you want to establish a temporary XO for you team go right ahead.
"Why is it that we're able to say so much on such a random topic?"
Valley Creek Attendees - *Please buy four triple A batteries*
|
|
|
Post by Mustang on Aug 8, 2009 7:37:26 GMT -5
I do disagree with you on one thing. I don't think Sam and I will be working together as much as you think. Another solution to our less than suitable coordination is a map. I have a pretty good picture of my woods from google maps that was taken during the fall. Which means no leaves on the trees making it easier to see the woods floor. You can actually pick out the white shed, cabin, and old trailer house. Mustang not to contradict you here or anything, but I feel that blue team can perform much much better. No hard feelings here man, I haven't been able to attend many of the last events obviously, so I had no way of knowing that, was just taking a guess. As far as the map, and 2 ways, I definetly agree there. We need it, maybe cheap compass's too just for practice with them. And as far as your last point, I in no way meant to imply that we don't need work. Honestly, even though we do win 99% of the time, I still am dissappointed with our performance. But that is a thing we needd to discuss as a team, not on this thread.
|
|
|
Post by Bishop on Aug 8, 2009 8:20:33 GMT -5
Agreed.
|
|
Reaper
New Member
Private First Class
Blue Team
Posts: 75
|
Post by Reaper on Aug 8, 2009 15:18:10 GMT -5
I think we should have a headquarters match that would be freakin awesome. But so much ammo would be wasted and the thought of all the welts. I think would be awesome though or even a search and rescue mission. Or a night raid on an enemy ammo dump with the ammo dump in the middle of the open making it harder for the assaulting team to take out.
And going on the out gunned thing I have to disagree I think the guns are pretty balanced out I think my gun is prolly the worst(not including its ROF and the fact that its a KWA). Its the people on the team and the over all teams performance. Personally I think you play better depending on how bad you really want to play.
|
|
|
Post by Bishop on Aug 8, 2009 17:57:17 GMT -5
Thats not a terrible idea, but could you please post it where it belongs. Which would be the scenario board.
|
|
Thunder
New Member
Private First Class
Posts: 15
|
Post by Thunder on Aug 9, 2009 22:03:02 GMT -5
Ok, here is what I see is one of the problems.
We have our team divided into two squads, an infiltration squad and an assault squad, if you will. These divisions were made with the team working together in mind, not two rival gangs or groups or troupes. This squad division makes perfect sense when we are working together, but when we are going against each other? Why should we even stick to these squads when they are meant to be working together?
What I'm trying to say is, during simulations when we are actually practicing our red and blue team tactics, yes, stick to red and blue squads.
But, during TD, there is no particular point in sticking with these squads, because suddenly the purpose isn't to compliment the other squad, but to eliminate it. So these divisions are only there to keep ourselves in our little comfort zones, which is in turn keeping us from getting more experience with the rest of team.
Think about it people, we are not two teams, not Red Team and Blue Team, but we are in fact one team, FireTEAM 11. So we need experience in working with, not against the other members.
So at this point you are undoubtedly thinking something. To be more specific, you are probably thinking something that pertains to this post that I am writing, which at the point you read this is will be the post I had already written. To be even less vague, you may be thinking ok, what's your goddamn point quit wasting my time, or you might even be thinking what I am about to say in the next paragraph. Or you're thinking something completely different, who the hell am I to say?
Join me brothers! We shall reunite the team! Reunite our fallen bonds that have been overtaken by those evil words, red team and blue team!
So what am I getting at? Let's fucking mix things up, whenever we do a generic deathmatch, we get a hat. Then, we get some paper. Then, we get a pen, or better yet, a pencil. Or the blood of our enemies.
But wait, stop there, because I know what is going through the minds of two people right now:
Bishop: "Let's get those Red bastards and use their blood to put on the paper!"
Lightning: "Dur Dur I'm raging homose Slaughter the Blues! For the paper!"
But wait children, that's the thing, we don't have enemies yet. There is a sheet of paper for everyone, whose names are on the paper. We will then draw papers, one at a time, and that will determine who is on what team for that deathmatch. I do plan to patent this method, so if any of you fuckers ever suggest this to someone, I expect all credit to me, or else I'm going to sue, hard. Likewise, if you have seen someone use this method before, I want you to find them, and bleed them dry, we will use their blood to write names down.
Pretty much, TD is just general practice, we don't need to be divided into Red and Blue for it, its pointless. Putting a whole squad with a stealth mindset against a team that cares much less about stealth, or at least tries less? It's pointless.
This way, we have plenty of experience with all of the team, which is better than just experience with one half.
But wait! There's more!
Wait, nope, no there's not, not yet at least.
|
|
|
Post by Bishop on Aug 10, 2009 8:52:09 GMT -5
I think choosing teams via "drawing names from a hat" is a very good idea. Believe it or not I was thinking the same damn thing as soon as I started reading your post. So forgive me, but I will not give you any credit for said idea.
*I'm tired and just woke up. My train of thought keeps going down dark alleys.*
I personally do not have a problem with mixing up teams for backyard TD. Like you said it will undoubtedly provide us with previous combat experience we didn't have.
My only issue with your post is that you go into detail about the two teams with their respective roles. When it's that teams fault for behaving in that manner. Just because we go Infiltration vs Assault, we don't have to act the part. Red team, feel free to use stealth tactics. Same with Blue Team. I don't feel we have to stick to traditional methods.
The fact that you mentioned nothing of armament makes me very happy. Seeing as how I still believe we do not outgun you and it is indeed how you act on the field. That includes: Tactics, team cooperation, and any other effecting factors.
|
|
Thunder
New Member
Private First Class
Posts: 15
|
Post by Thunder on Aug 10, 2009 11:34:26 GMT -5
Of course I didn't mention armament, I remember a particular TD where I had a pistol and got more kills than anyone with an AEG on our team. Its all about individual performance.
"But wait Thunder, wasn't your previous post all about trying to get the team to work together more?"
Yes, indeed it was. But think about it people, how well someone performs with a team is based on their attitude and in general how well they work with others, these qualities are part of the individual, thus grouped in individual performance.
Remember, when individual performance is mentioned, its not talking about just how well you can shoot, how fast you can move, or how 1337 you are, its also talking about another couple things. One of which is how well you, as an individual, work with a team.
The other thing about individual performance is adaptation. Speedy adaptation at that. Adaptation to personal situations and team situations are included in this.
Personal: "Shit I'm being shot at, how am I going to get myself out of this situation or how can I best return fire?" Stuff like that.
Team: "Well, I don't really like this order, but, how well can I follow this order yet still be of benefit to the team?"
What am I saying with that last thing there? Simple, still follow the order, but make the most possible use out of it, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you should stand up, shout, and wave a blaze orange flag just to get back at the CO. You should ADAPT to the situation, find a way to make this order work for you and your situation.
Figuring out how to be the best use to your team in a particular situation is how all of us can improve. This varies by situation, so the room for improvement is infinite, the main point is to think on your feet, yet still work with the team. That is how we improve individual performance, thus improving the performance of the team.
Individual performance isn't increased by making your gun the Ares Thunderstruck Gauss rifle, or by making sure you can shoot the wings off of a red moth surrounded by a group of black moths from 200 yards away.
|
|
|
Post by Bishop on Aug 10, 2009 12:22:19 GMT -5
Well put.
Not to rain on your parade but you coming off as kind of an asshole lol. I don't personally care, but lets not hurt anyone's feelings now. I know Mustang is pretty proud of himself for being able to shoot the wings of a red moth in a group of black moths.
|
|
Thunder
New Member
Private First Class
Posts: 15
|
Post by Thunder on Aug 10, 2009 12:25:00 GMT -5
I can almost see where you are saying I'm coming off as an asshole. Almost. But not enough, please elaborate.
|
|